the pc3 died so i have been riding without it but i can't adjust the fuel now and it is running pig rich. We chose to use Deatschwerks 800cc injectors. That vehicle needs the larger injectors to really gain the big power people are going for. Base fuel pressure is at 46psi, O2 was even lower today, 660 WOT, probably due to cold 19 degree air, EGTs were climbing for 1600. A fuel injector is a electrical-mechanical valve that uses magnetic field from its coil winding when current is applied and pulls the metal pintle back away from it's seat to allow fuel to flow. One of the things I need to do is up the fuel injectors from the stock 24# ones to what they recommended which was the 39# ones used in a stock Terminator (i. I was thinking all the added hardware was asking for. 7 Bar Boost using only RON 95 Petrol. Hey guys im looking into getting some fuel injectors before i go in for a tune. Your engine is not getting enough fuel at high RPMs and the injectors are at 100% duty cycle. IOW, the RS6 injectors require less flow than the S3 injectors. The extra 1. You're not supposed to go larger with out a matched MAFS or a tune but from my findings the ECU can adapt for up to a 24#/hr injector. 5 Larger intercooler and a bypass valve. Decrease fuel quantity to satisfy the needs of your current set up, or crank it up to 700 RWHP. These 630cc injectors meet the demands of big turbo setups and software upgrades in VW/Audi engines. Just wondering if the std. Both a tune for the stock motor and bigger injectors, then again whenever you get around to the mods you’re planning. Earlier today I stopped at Mountune's HQ to get my ST Coilovers installed. These injectors can help your engine perform at maximum capacity and boost your fuel economy. In this situation you would have to consider adding more (or more powerful) pumps (and dealing with the associated issues of putting too much heat into your fuel at idle or low throttle conditions) when instead you could just upgrade to larger injectors. If you have a MAF 460, the two tubes coming from the throttle body will go into a Y-Pipe, and then converge to one larger tube at the air box. 73motives that need to be installed! It runs pretty good, I just dont want to be to lean!. 7 injectors are rated at about 30 lbs per hour with the 58 psi fuel pump. Because of larger displacements, everything (almost) needs to be larger size; namely larger fuel pump, larger fuel injector; etc. In the new 2015-2016 GT's the stock fuel system can support e85. Injector Slope Tuning The injector slopes can be thought of as global fuel multipliers. The MAF 460 will take quite a few performance mods without needing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The 25* injector has two more holes in it than the 8* injector (4 vs 6) this is better atomization plus it gives you 15% more fuel than the 8* injector even though it is rated the same. do i need to get a walbro fuel pump if i get bigger injectors? 3. I have also included an ECO 15psi performance tune for switch on the fly performance with 18psi in Sport Mode. I'll discuss increasing the car injector size in a while, but you can read more about increasing fuel pressure here. Fuel Injector Size Suggestion The size of the fuel injectors plays a major role in the performance and fuel efficiency in a TPI system. 5 psi (3 bar), they may have to convert their data (you can use our flow calculator or see Bernoulli’s Principle and Fuel Injectors above), but at least knowing that a 900cc/min injector is larger than a 800cc/min because they were measured on the same basis is made. Fuel Injector Clinic s 1100cc/min high impedance injector is the largest injector that has excellent idle performance in street driven cars while still providing enough fuel to support mid to high horsepower output. We’re going to discuss how to properly change the tune to compensate for new fuel injectors. Not doing so will only result in more fuel being dumped in and wasted, running rich, loss of power. 650cc is about as big as you can go and still expect the ECU to trim the injectors propperly. In tractor and truck pulling when you go really far with the edm or honing of a nozzle the "meat" is getting thin. Around 10 degrees. I installed Ford LU47 injectors because I run E85. Injectors are designed to deliver a short burst of fuel directly in to the intake manifold in front of the intake valve. our "well-tuned" injector open/close time is 1. These are custom built fuel injectors designed to offer top performance. The current injectors were a surprise when we went to pull the ones off a second motor that we picked up and seen how different looking they were. :ford:05 f250 6. 2017 Grom – Honda went with a different injector, fuel pump, and ECU. And the FIC and ID stuff all has published worksheets. That lucky bastard gets to tune trucks all day long on his dyno and can make a tune to work with 60 over injectors. Injectors can also be classified into two categories based on whether they can inject a single fuel or two types of fuels in a single unit, i. best bet for now if your not sure on getting a turbo kit, is getting a wideband O2 sensor and piggyback ecu, cuz if you decide to drop a turbo on their or not, tuning air/fuel ratios is mandatory. A combination of a superior injector and a properly tuned ECU really helps the NSX run safer AFR with an ideal idle and part throttle drivability. The injector miss match is irrelevant the stock p75 uses 240cc injectors and the stock b20 injectors are 240cc if they are the stock injectors. Hey all, it appears the fuel from the car sitting has rung my injectors a few mechanics have told me so, either way if I cant get a hold of decent performance injectors to replace these then I'll try to clean them Anyone have experience with aftermarket injectors on these cars without re-tuning. This is the BK1 section. Bigger injectors won't do a thing except starve the fuel pump. Fuel injectors are rated and distinguished by the rate at which they flow fuel, which is usually rated in either cc’s (cubic centimeters) or pounds, measured over time (i. 6 and with the fuel trim on it would idle at 2. 5bar MAP sensor and a bigger injector. The newest LS3 fuel injector uses a larger diameter lower O-ring compared to all the previous injectors. Injector Dynamics ID F750 is the first performance filter engineered to meet strict OE filter requirements, focusing on Bosch’s specification for electronic fuel injectors. tunning advice and help for bigger injectors in 5. You can't just add bigger injectors and let it go at that, without consequences. Old School Fuel Injectors. Will the bigger injectors and fuel pump kill my gas mileage?. 4T Gen 1 Cruze or Gamma II has been a challenge about as long as people have been modifying them. Ford uses the concept of injector slopes, breakpoints and battery voltage latency adjustment to cover the behavior of injectors. The Holley injectors are officially compatible with pump gasoline and blends up to 15% ethanol. do i need to get a walbro fuel pump if i get bigger injectors? 3. I would be suprised if the graph budged from stock. Remember, all this is going to be custom tuned to the optimum air/fuel ratio, and, generally speaking, those factory stock injectors will be up to delivering the added fuel required. Idle quality have very little to do with "injector technology" and everything to do with tuning. DO NOT drive on 850s with a tune that thinks it is running stock injectors. This makes it a fantastic fix for those who don’t want to end up with expensive car problems that will burn a deep hole in the pocket. After creating this thread, we later realized there are six injector scalars (similar to MS43) which can be used to scale the injectors. The fuel side is a bit more complicated and has two parts. Whenever larger injectors are installed, the engine calibration MAY need to be changed to match the pulse width issued to the engine's needs. Now you can have all your injectors clean and flow matched. Also larger injectors might be necessary on E85 but as for running gasoline, our injectors flow more than enough fuel because they are designed to flow E85 which requires alot more of it to make the same power as gasoline. The larger the nozzle, the ‘quicker’ the injector can. If your ECU can’t figure out what’s going on, you’ll have to find some way to either reprogram or replace it. FUEL INJECTORS. We found no option to perform as good as the OEM injector. Need to know if I need bigger injectors or not? Got a 98 ss a4 (28lbs/hrstock inj. Any ‘Injector size power output calculator’ website will confirm this to be correct. High Gear/Low RPM leanout happens with boost. Tuning Tips. Bigger injectors require more flow, so you need the pump that is capable of sustaining the pressure even when flow is higher. BRZ: Calibrating larger injectors BRZ: Re-scaling the Factory Air Fuel Ratio Sensor After installing a set of larger port injectors it is very important to ensure that the ECU knows their true size so that it can accurately calculate the correct injector opening time for a given volume of fuel. stage 3 or a bigger turbo require bigger injectors. Fuel Injector Facts. Stock Fuel Injector Set - AA. Re: Larger fuel injectors (turbo cars) Post #2 » Wed May 20, 2015 3:58 am i was wondering about getting a set of bigger injectors and having john tune in some more power. These are fully remanufactured with new tungston coated plungers and barrels. Very unacceptable. VMP offers three different "levels" that can be purchased with the X4 tuner or by themselves for. Propellant A (usually the oxidizer, represented with blue in the image) flows through an outer tube, coming out as a cylindrical stream, while propellant B (usually the fuel, represented with red in the image) flows within an inner tube and impinges on a central pintle-shaped. The job of a tuner is to not only find the ideal air fuel ratio and timing curve but to also tune the fuel table or map. 5" catback to the tune of 170rwhp. 0L engine is the size of the standard turbocharger which dictates the peak power and torque the engine is capable of. It is based on its predecessor, the M51, which was a six-cylinder diesel engine with a Bosch VP20 swirl chamber (in-Direct) injection or IDI as its commonly known, and was fitted to the E34 to E39 td and tds models. To be safe and do things the right way a tune would be needed with larger injectors though. I run xtreme street tune and On my stock fuel system I stay between 56-64psi. I'll discuss increasing the car injector size in a while, but you can read more about increasing fuel pressure here. lies, you just need a downpipe and an intake for stage 2. The MAF 460 will take quite a few performance mods without needing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. My goal is 260bhp and 275lbs. Larger injectors would supply the extra fuel that the auto tuner is supposed to supply. Just don't exceed 55 psi or the fuel line fittings could fail. Couple questions. Most of us don't make enough horsepower to know the difference in our mismatched systems, but any serious tuner will get it right. Tuning for “Peak” Performance usually becomes the unsafe tune. So the formula above is Flywheel HP *. Stock Fuel Injector Set - AA. I was talking to one of the reps there about e85 options. 73motives that need to be installed! It runs pretty good, I just dont want to be to lean!. I say it's not a bad idea because you can troubleshoot any driveability issues caused purely by your fueling upgrades before you stress the engine. 98 to adjust base fuel Last, I verify injector dead time (0. but with no info to back it up. If I have to modify the clips, so be it 4-I'm using Hondata to tune. You can make lots of power with a safe overall performance tune without sacrificing drivability, reliability or longevity. Base fuel pressure is at 46psi, O2 was even lower today, 660 WOT, probably due to cold 19 degree air, EGTs were climbing for 1600. 3 grams/second. Unless you plan to run E85 the stock injectors/rail are fine. So they aren't out of flow, so a larger injector won't do anything but cause the car to run rough and flood if you don't retune the ECU, because the ECU doesn't know there's different injectors in there. It'll be a rough tune so you'll still run a little rich but not as bad as without it. Greg, I apologize for my short and vague answer. Having a flawless fuel injector cuts down on gas consumption and saves you money at the pump. And the FIC and ID stuff all has published worksheets. "Resistance to Fuel Contamination - Quality of the Medium. 2011-2017 Mustang GT * Flex Fuel tuning is available on the 2015-2017 Mustang GT's 47lb or larger fuel injectors; Stock Pump. I was able to street tune without bypass tube after some effort learning adjustable parameters and tables. yes a larger maf will scale the injectors slightly, you can also if you want more fuel, add a 4bar or larger injector and pull fuel, but it also (MAF) throws off the timing table thus is my argument, YOU the enduser and only adjust the entire board with adaption, your tuner would have to write the code to adjust values per rpm plot, THUS is why we are telling you to run the injectors/maf the tune is wrote for. Personally, if you don't have a "tune" on the car, I would put your stock injectors back in until you do! Like others have mentioned. Hey guys im looking into getting some fuel injectors before i go in for a tune. 67/850) % as a starting point, and as I changed my scalar significantly away from 850 (+/- 20 = significant), I redid all those tables based on the new scalar. 0L parts, the use of MPI or TBI is always a practical choice. It's measured in grams per second. First remove the retaining clip from each injector by prying them gently with a screwdriver. They are far-preferable to carburetors when you are repairing them. With the jcw 380cc injectors this puts the level back around 82% duty cycle which is within safe margins. lack a method of controlling the increased fuel delivery at idle, cruise and part throttle, or 4. All metal bodied injectors are clear coated or repainted for that “like new” look. Mopar’s mid-’90s prototype MPI/EFI […]. If you get bigger turbos and raise the boost well past 14psi, then definitely get bigger injectors. 7 Bar Boost using only RON 95 Petrol. VMP offers three different "levels" that can be purchased with the X4 tuner or by themselves for. My goal is 260bhp and 275lbs. Personally, if you don't have a "tune" on the car, I would put your stock injectors back in until you do! Like others have mentioned. LSX Performance Parts. Just upping the fuel dilevery via bigger injectors is not the answer to more power. These injectors flow 42 lbs/hr at 43. so i have a stage 2 06 sti. Performance injectors "Thanks for reading our fuel injector article. After the first Test & Tune, it was noted that injector duty cycles were up at 94-percent at 17psi boost pressure, a sign that the fuel delivery had already been maxed out. You chose injectors based on the fuel needs for your application. 330cc will be enough fuel delivery for around 240hp. Our unit is the cast replacement version with enhancements, so you don't have to scour the internet and junkyard for a $150 used part, that may or may not work. In this situation you would have to consider adding more (or more powerful) pumps (and dealing with the associated issues of putting too much heat into your fuel at idle or low throttle conditions) when instead you could just upgrade to larger injectors. If your fuel pressure is set higher than stock (43. 0L engine is the size of the standard turbocharger which dictates the peak power and torque the engine is capable of. yes a larger maf will scale the injectors slightly, you can also if you want more fuel, add a 4bar or larger injector and pull fuel, but it also (MAF) throws off the timing table thus is my argument, YOU the enduser and only adjust the entire board with adaption, your tuner would have to write the code to adjust values per rpm plot, THUS is why. Also essentila is a good fuel filter. Getting enough fuel into a tuned-up 1. 0T FSI EA113 engine platform. I wouldn't waste the money. If I have to modify the clips, so be it 4-I'm using Hondata to tune. I was under the impression that injectors are built in accordance with turbos and can support any boost. If the injection is electronic, larger injectors need to be matched to the ECU as it will need to lift the needle less or for a shorter time for the same fuel delivery. 3L/325 Fuel Injectors and get Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing!. To calculate the proper. There is plenty of room on stock injectors to increase 40-50 hp without changing anything but the settings in the ECU. I removed, backflushed and cleaned my injectors when I did some work on my fuel system at 80,000km. My injectors were held in with loctite on the screws, so don't do this if you don't have time and patience. 5 psi with a fuel pressure of 50 (close to ours) will have a flow capacity of 20. Your setup would make more power with a slightly bigger injector, no fmu, and a good tune than it would with the fmu in other words. walbro 255 fuel pump cobb intake cobb catted dp spt cat back exhaust will be installing 650cc injectors tonight if it is ok to run on the stage 2 map without getting a pro tune. This is a common flow rating for "drop in" pump upgrades. Fuel injectors 1 Answer. This makes it possible to fit the fuel injection event in the programmed time frame. This is why you see dual injectors in smaller engines that have large turbos of super chargers. A spring returns the pintle to the closed position when no electrical current is flowing. Reasons M20 community generally put bigger injectors usually because there are heaps of bigger injectors around and therefore they can be had for cheap. Here's a couple of points from the RS Tuning website: "Injector scaling and fuel gauge/consumption for ANY injector size with or without fuel return" "Don’t spend weeks or months on end going back to your tuner for map tweaks when your fuel gauge doesn’t work or the ECU has learnt a fuel trim, do it once and do it right!". As the injector size increases the amount of fuel put in the cylinder is larger/quicker so your timing will be slightly advanced compared to stock injectors. 5 lbs / 8 cylinders / duty cycle (in this case, 80%). Otherwise, it will generate more problems for the engine. The larger the nozzle, the ‘quicker’ the injector can empty. 400whp requires tuning. The TorqMax turbocharger has addressed. But the injector system is still audible (just not as loud as a DI fuel pump). The 1996-2003 TDI use a 2 stage spring fuel injector. MAP also carries fuel rail adapters that make it. Preprogram up to four different EFI MAPs. If you have the need for extra fuel, like with a large turbo, larger injectors are a must. Whenever larger injectors are installed, the engine calibration MAY need to be changed to match the pulse width issued to the engine's needs. DeatschWerks patented designs even allows for a clean, stock start-up and and turnover so you lose none of your stock convenience while you shoot for more horsepower and torque. “When you switch to Q16, that can magnify the problem because you have to raise the injector duty cycle; you’ll need to switch to a larger injector and make other appropriate tuning changes because the fuel demand is much greater. Your injectors are in constant use, and as it pressurizes the fuel, it also comes in contact with air, which can result in some deterioration. 0L engine is the size of the standard turbocharger which dictates the peak power and torque the engine is capable of. 5 to 4 times larger than is usually recommended, as the duty cycle for the injectors rises, the injectors come closer and closer to squirting all the time, and. Small Engine Fuel Injection Conversion Kit for Turbo Our Small Engine EFI Conversion kit also supports a Turbo charger. 0L Fueling - Injectors. 0L Performance Fuel Injectors. If your fuel injectors aren't functioning properly, your vehicle will use more gas, won't run smoothly, and might even stop altogether. Stock injectors on EVERY production engine are sized at least 20-25% larger than necessary for the power it is making. These injectors flow 1,000 ccs at 40 psi, slightly bigger than our 750cc injectors. All of the extra hp will produce a clear improvement in power. People have thrown Prelude injectors, Toyota injectors, etc. ACCEL Performance fuel injectors provides precise control of fuel delivery & atomization for improved throttle response. 3 bottom end will hold 400-425hp without a problem as long as you're getting the fuel to it. 85 upper, mid muffler delete, 180 Tstat, down pipes and a tune on 91. 5 to 4 times larger than is usually recommended, as the duty cycle for the injectors rises, the injectors come closer and closer to squirting all the time, and. (Stock flow/Y)^2 (bar) So in order to compensate larger injectors the fuel pressure is adjusted to a lower pressure. 60lbs injectors will work and will idle on the stock system but not nearly as smooth as it will with a boost referenced fuel system with a return line from the fuel regulator at the rail back to the tank. Well, standard injectors are 19lb, these are 30lb so lots more fuel. Rad,cool bypass, kooks headers and t/d's with cats on the way,and 3. When is it time for Larger Fuel Injectors? Jump to Latest Follow Certainly a 3. 0 liter without the need to increase the injector's size. So they aren't out of flow, so a larger injector won't do anything but. 0L Stage 3 Extreme pack upgrade is the ultimate Hilux 3. Beyond the big performance gains realized by installing an off-the-shelf chip, larger injectors are the next step in noticeably improving power on a 7. These bad boys will flow enough fuel for 650rwhp but are also a hybrid design which means they use a larger 7. The typical response will be 80% duty cycle. Greg, I apologize for my short and vague answer. When to Consider New Fuel Injectors. bigger fuel injectors. 1fastgti805 New Member. Without a way to tune the ecu (below), you cannot add larger injectors without causing other issues. To convert the percent fuel trim into a ms value you have to multiply by the fuel injector scale. 0 liter without the need to increase the injector's size. Yes C-Cat that is correct. Fmu's are good for people who don't have the time, money, or avaliability to a proper dyno tune. if you want to run larger injectors AND high fuel pressure. One of the things I need to do is up the fuel injectors from the stock 24# ones to what they recommended which was the 39# ones used in a stock Terminator (i. If you are running rich, and you increase the injector constant from 24. In order to get more power can I simply just install bigger injectors on my 2003 Volkswagen Passat 2. I have recently had that done. Can a stock p28 or p2p ecu run larger injectors? Stock is 240cc and i want to run 285cc. Simply getting bigger injectors will do nothing but flood your motor with excess fuel and make you run rich. 12V but at a differnt flow rate of 0-7546 Units Since the rate of difference between them is. A 19 lb/hr injector size at 43. But the bigger thing here is the fact that understanding how the smarty works, and base settings to start with seem to be non existence. I like the boost from the turbo but am looking more towards staying off the throttle and getting a mpg boost. The injector is a valve with a plunger and pressurized fuel inside of it. require expensive new "hats," feed and return lines, regulator and wiring to say nothing of an expensive re-tune. You will need to run custom tuning with these injectors to maximize their potential and avoid a rough idle. larger injectors: I have gen 1 turbo busa that i have been using ecu editor for larger injector compensation and air shifter and ignition retard. Pick up a set for your car today and get the most out of your upgraded vehicle. Set of 4, Compatible with T5 and T7 Saab 900/ 9-3/9-5. Have you added any fuel to your current tune to see if you can get it closer to stoich?. The reality is that while the wider spray pattern of the OEM injectors using a Pintle is regarded better for atomisation at low engine speed. Car and Truck Fuel Injectors. Even bigger injectors such as 550cc Mazda 13BT units can be installed very easily to the manifold, and I have done this conversion myself several times. Methanol will help with IAT's and bumps the octane of fuel in hopes to eliminate detonation. Show Full Signature. Just don't exceed 55 psi or the fuel line fittings could fail. that needs a lot more fuel at idle). Bigger injectors with no tune e. The only thing needed is a tune for it, but the tank, lines, pump, and injectors will all support it without modification. The stock LNF injectors are 120#, and the Opel injectors are 135# per hr at 10 mpa. Personally, I’d try some Lucas or Seafoam injector cleaner and put off bigger injectors until I was ready to get started on making more power. If the injection is electronic, larger injectors need to be matched to the ECU as it will need to lift the needle less or for a shorter time for the same fuel delivery. Duty Cycle is the KEY factor in the equation!. They feature a low-mass disc design that ensures accurate metering control even at ultra-low & high duty cycles and higher fuel pressures. Beyond this, you're theory is sensible - Check the tune with the new injectors/fuel pump and see if you're still hitting targets. eg the secondary injectors may use E85 or race gas. Fuel injectors do not create horsepower, they support horsepower. This will collect the fuel still in the fuel rail without draining onto the engine or floor. These harnesses include the Gen II LT1/LT4, Gen III (24x) LS1/LS6 and Vortec Truck Engines as well as Gen IV (58x) LS2, LS3, LS7, & Vortec and GEN V LT / ECOTEC3 Engines. 4302 I ctrl A to select entire map. The ECCS is designed to operate only one type of fuel injector, no exceptions. This post explains the Injector End Angle table that works very well for me: LINK. First remove the retaining clip from each injector by prying them gently with a screwdriver. I have a 224 cam, polished and ported GM Performance LS2 Heads, Long tubes, with no cats, A K&N. You only need larger injectors when you add more air, like with a turbo or SC. 0L Fueling - Injectors. Our OEM approved ultrasonic fuel injector cleaning service is the only injector cleaning method that can guarantee reliable results. Despite the high flow rate, they are linear and controllable at low pulse widths. 85 is the smallest pulley you can do without upgrading injectors, is this accurate? Also I was wondering if anyone has done similar mods and what your power level and et's were with CAI, 2. It will wake up your Coyote. So what are you trying to. The ECM/PCM/chip need to be modified to control the larger injectors to make use of them. Just to reiterate though, you cannot put a bigger turbo on your car and use a better fuel like ethanol without having a professional tuner calibrate your ECU. Our cars do use the O2 sensor while under light throttle to slightly adjust the a/f ratio, but not enough to compensate for even slightly bigger injectors, let alone the really big ones that are out there on the market. ID 1000s plus DW65c =roughly $750. These injectors are commonly used in Unitronics software for big turbo setups. The same injector pulse on different size injectors will flow different amounts of fuel. The nozzle on this injector starts out as a brand new, 7 hole Power Stroke nozzle, which has been modified to deliver more fuel (per unit of time) over a stock nozzle. Motor: Stock HX35 Turbo Stock intercooler Reman VP44 Pump S&B Cold air intake with paper filter 4" Turbo Back exhaust Straight pipe Edge Juice with Attitude. In case I ever need to swap back I picked up a spare fuel rail, reg and factory injectors for $80. A restriction of only 8% to 10% in a single fuel injector can lean out the fuel mixture and cause a misfire. After the first Test & Tune, it was noted that injector duty cycles were up at 94-percent at 17psi boost pressure, a sign that the fuel delivery had already been maxed out. There are many places you can have fuel injectors serviced, and typical cost is between $20 and $30 per injector for complete service (clean, replace screen, new o-ring, etc) and flow testing. no auto mfg makes fuel injectors in house that i know of. As you raise the knock limit using ethanol blended fuels allowing you to add knock-free power, you run out of fuel system headroom. Injectors are chosen based on the fuel demands for your car. The injectors should not be removed, and will not work properly in a stock LNF fuel rail. Yes, you can add larger injectors, but only if you have a means to tune the ECU. Botch is the only mfg of "OEM quality" injectors that i know of and they all fit the same recievers. With that injector size we know that you should be looking at a quality injector manufacturer that can supply accurate and detailed injector data for you or your tuner when you tune. They ~19% larger than stock and fit without anything special. Read this document before reading the applicable tuning section for those controllers, which are here:. As for the fuel system, you are now finding it isn't uncommon for a 600-rwhp car to be running 100-220 lb/hr injectors. 5 is the perfect Air/Fuel ratio for power (naturally aspirated engines), any more fuel will reduce the power of the engine. Greg, I apologize for my short and vague answer. OBS injectors are rated at approximately 90cc of flow and they are single shot by design. This article will help you to diagnose a bad fuel injector with a simple and easy resistance test of the fuel injector. However, we can turn up the pressure on the more than ample pump to increase the flow if needed. I had purchased a 58V FICM from Quick Tricks (it only actually puts out 54V, but that's another thing) and I got Innovative's "Mild FICM Tune" and ran that with stock injectors and noticed an improvement with it while using my ECM tune. Assuming that the current tune is good and the short term fuels times are low. bigger injectors and a maf sensor. I was looking into the Terminator Stealth EFI for a Ford truck project that I'm building a 418W stroker for. Either tow it, or do the pump/rails yourself but leave the stock injectors, and swap in the bigger ones at the tuner's place. Otherwise, it will generate more problems for the engine. By adjusting the fuel pressure and the injector nozzle size. I would try higher pressure from a custom tune first. Yes C-Cat that is correct. Now, if you are Kenne Bell, you have the best of all worlds. First, some background information on how the Subaru ECU controls Air-to-Fuel Ratio at low load (idle, low throttle, cruising) where AFR is kept at ~14. LS1 Fuel Injector scaling for changing injectors. To put it simply, without sufficient fuel to match the boosted air charge from the blower or turbocharger, all the tuning tricks in the world won’t produce safe, sustainable performance. The newest LS3 fuel injector uses a larger diameter lower O-ring compared to all the previous injectors. Base fuel pressure is at 46psi, O2 was even lower today, 660 WOT, probably due to cold 19 degree air, EGTs were climbing for 1600. 5 Larger intercooler and a bypass valve. 12 parameters working just on cold start there is no reason why your vehicles will not turn key & start even if you have big injectors after correct tuning has been achieved. You should benefit from having a new tune put on but only being 80hp injectors I don't believe it is required. (Clips circled). injectors fit the L32?. I have a stock 2001 Ford Ranger. There is a definite minimum that the injector can be cycled and still deliver fuel. Truck did great, started to defuel around 1350-1450 and got between 15-17 mpg's. Keep in mind, though, that while fuel injector cleaner can help restore your car's performance so that its power and mileage are closer to new, it can't improve your car beyond its original specs [source: Allen]. Contact Mark at Danville Performance. Propellant A (usually the oxidizer, represented with blue in the image) flows through an outer tube, coming out as a cylindrical stream, while propellant B (usually the fuel, represented with red in the image) flows within an inner tube and impinges on a central pintle-shaped. Injectors used in this video: Bosch 0280155830 The tuned ROM file for my engine with these injectors: ***** (You can just copy the fuel maps to your file and these injectors will work just fine without extra tuning. Say your 275cc injectors are working at 50% duty cycle under normal driving, and 65% under WOT (wide open throttle) you are only using 137. If you have a tuner you can increase your fuel by up to 20% with the tuner without going to a larger injector. This type of seal relies on the fuel rail applying some downward force on the injectors when tightened down. Larger injectors need to be tuned. per hour or cc's per minute. Injector Slope Tuning The injector slopes can be thought of as global fuel multipliers. Cheapest and easiest way to add a little bit of power to any newer car relatively cheap. The only thing needed is a tune for it, but the tank, lines, pump, and injectors will all support it without modification. I was looking into the Terminator Stealth EFI for a Ford truck project that I'm building a 418W stroker for. This isn't as common on newer style injectors. ] this is only for the A9L family. NB: We got 90% BHP Increase on the Perodua Viva! Warranty is 6 months. Fmu's are good for people who don't have the time, money, or avaliability to a proper dyno tune. These parts will help you replace or upgrade the fuel injector in your car or truck. When tuning for larger injectors, don’t go messing with the Mass Air Flow (MAF) table, or this could happen. FUEL SYSTEM CLEANING SERVICES. Fuel Injector Nozzles Our most popular option for thousands of customers, Our line of injector nozzles are the same nozzles we use on our injectors. However, if you are planning on a throttle body injection set-up, you need a dedicated TBI unit (in order to supply the fuel to the injectors, etc. To convert the percent fuel trim into a ms value you have to multiply by the fuel injector scale. 8L V6's in the US among other things. A combination of a superior injector and a properly tuned ECU really helps the NSX run safer AFR with an ideal idle and part throttle drivability. It was s pressurized can of injector cleaner with a hose and connector that connected to the test port on the fuel rail. there are so many disputes. As for the fuel system, you are now finding it isn’t uncommon for a 600-rwhp car to be running 100-220 lb/hr injectors. NO warning lights or backfires with Powerdyne 9 lb. 2000): About $24/injector plus shipping for the injector rebuild. Both a tune for the stock motor and bigger injectors, then again whenever you get around to the mods you're planning. 7 @ 132mph on 116oct. 2 and sometimes it would idle 12. not everything is bigger=better. 1mm diameter plunger (vs 6. When you install bigger injectors, you will have to alter the SCALING and LATENCY parameters in the ECU to suite the new injectors, otherwise the air fuel ratio settings will be way-out, your car will idle poorly and stall on occasion, run rich and generally behave poorly. Personally, I’d try some Lucas or Seafoam injector cleaner and put off bigger injectors until I was ready to get started on making more power. Just wondering if the std. Larger injectors give you the ability to flow an increased amount of fuel with out having to increase the amount of time the injector stays open. Electronic fuel injectors are built to precise dimensions, measured in microns. Fuel injectors are resilient and does not often need replacement. I also feel that using to big of an injector is the potential cause of the annoying P2227 code. The extra 1. If you don't have any real tuning system then you'll run rich. So you end up getting more timing at part throttle than you should and can cause detonation when you are not WOT. By 400-450 whp, these pumps tend be be out of flow. You can see that at approx 4500 rpm the injector duty cycle is pretty much 100% and at approx 4700 rpm the air fuel ratio starts to go lean. For the Stages 2-4 with larger fuel injectors there is no performance gain vs. Started ok in the morning but. - The blue line is the Tuned Prospeed RDX Spec tune with Factory Acura RDX 410cc injectors We noticed a whopping 37 ft lbs of torque increase at 4200 rpm over stock and over 16 whp on top in VTEC. By adjusting the fuel pressure and the injector nozzle size. Injector Upgrade / Fuel Rail. This supercharger system comes in two options. Any information and advice is appreciated. Since we now have the fuel injector scaling and latency voltage tables found in the 99 ECU ROM, we're able to swap in different fuel injectors. At first I was thinking installing larger fuel injectors made more sense but after talking with my brother who did a twin turbo install on a Chevy truck he said just the opposite. Until an engine's fuel requirements go beyond an injectors 100% duty cycle, you don't need bigger ones. The second is by physically delivering more fuel by installing larger injectors or modifying the injector tips. In this situation you would have to consider adding more (or more powerful) pumps (and dealing with the associated issues of putting too much heat into your fuel at idle or low throttle conditions) when instead you could just upgrade to larger injectors. the fact is, jack, FOR YOU AT THIS TIME, it doesn't matter which you do first. Tuning Tips – To calculate a starting value for a different injector size than stock, use the following formula:. 5:1 at static, and around 11. This is a common flow rating for "drop in" pump upgrades. Going with a bigger fuel injector on your S550 will allow your Mustang to make more power. More importantly than that, the increased air intake allows the tuner to increase the fuel delivered. Cut my quarter mile time 3/10 sec and gained 3 mph. To note the obvious, the comparable file was originally meant for a 2016 RZR XP Turbo with only 144 horsepower and smaller injectors. First and foremost, adding larger fuel injectors alone will NOT create extra horsepower! The purchase of larger fuel injectors should only be considered when your engine has exceeded the horsepower capacity of the existing fuel injectors, at which point larger injectors are then required to SUPPORT the additional horsepower. Well, standard injectors are 19lb, these are 30lb so lots more fuel. Step 3- Replacing the fuel injectors Note: There is still gasoline in the fuel rail, you can let it slowly drip out of the feed line, or remove one injector carefully, and then the fuel will pour right out. Personally, if you don't have a "tune" on the car, I would put your stock injectors back in until you do! Like others have mentioned. Around 10 degrees. So adding the injectors with a proper tune can be worth while. Simply getting bigger injectors will do nothing but flood your motor with excess fuel and make you run rich. Larger intercooler, combined with the alcohol injection system will provide adequate cooling for increased boost and power levels. Cleaning a fuel injector is important, as it helps remove gunk or whatever has built up over the injectors over time. Previous to the fuel injector change. You get bigger injectors when your stock ones cant cut it, but when you get injectors (or anything that will change your air/fuels) you need to have your car tuned. Yes, in order to optimize Injector End Angle tuning, larger fuel injectors are required to spray short injector pulse-width durations (especially at higher RPM). Show Full Signature 2005 STI - 11. is it safe to run 650cc injectors on a cobb stage 2 map for the ap. All injectors are grouped in flow matched sets within 1% variance ( factory allows a variance of usually 3%-5% ) 7. A MAF calibrated for 30# injectors for use without a tune on a ECM that is factory set up for 25# injectors. I would be running the lsj injectors (36 lb/hr) at around 35-40 psi. the KR engine should have top hat type injectors for the air shrouding system, the vacuum connection for it is either on the front of the inlet between cylinders 3 & 4 for the 50mm inlet, for the smaller ones its usually on the 5th injector housing. There are a number of ways to tune the stock ecu, depending on how you choose to do it: Option 1: $60 F3 Adapter. First and foremost, adding larger fuel injectors alone will NOT create extra horsepower! The purchase of larger fuel injectors should only be considered when your engine has exceeded the horsepower capacity of the existing fuel injectors, at which point larger injectors are then required to SUPPORT the additional horsepower. And there are two ways of doing it on most diesels. I'm running a GT350 manifold and installed it myself. If you put in a different size the duty cycle for that injector will put in more or less fuel than the OEM set injector. Pressure to the injectors must be a constant 35 to 45 psi per injector. As the injector size increases the amount of fuel put in the cylinder is larger/quicker so your timing will be slightly advanced compared to stock injectors. I towed 2 jeeps through the hills for 8 hours. A 1000cc will net you plenty of flow for the power goals. From F-body to Corvette, Sierra to Silverado, G8 to GTO, we carry everything for making power with your LS or Gen V Ride!. might be a silly question, do larger injectors like LPE 63lb or ID850 increase the hp or torque by itself? or is it just adjusting the right amount of fuel pump after increased airflow? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. The TorqMax turbocharger has addressed. no auto mfg makes fuel injectors in house that i know of. The stock LNF injectors are 120#, and the Opel injectors are 135# per hr at 10 mpa. In case I ever need to swap back I picked up a spare fuel rail, reg and factory injectors for $80. The only thing needed is a tune for it, but the tank, lines, pump, and injectors will all support it without modification. Here's Bosch's take on fuel injector filtration. Anytime you install larger than stock fuel injectors into your car, some sort of tuning (flash, piggy-back, stand-alone, etc. 3L denso flex fuel injectors flow 78lb/hr, but none have been sent out for flow testing to verify that number to the best of my knowledge. 99 or more ship free within the continental U. Modern engine systems are built from the bottom up for electronic fuel injection. Show Full. I’ve heard of lash adjuster contamination years ago (not a big deal and was contained), the exhaust side #2 cam cap needing retorqued (also fixed). i have the following mods. MAP Sensor/Injector Rescales. Injectors, by the way, are available in a number of sizes, determined by the amount of fuel they’ll flow. A brand-new fuel injector from AutoZone provides efficient emissions and exceptional performance, so you can rest assured that your engine is receiving the right amount of gas when you make this simple upgrade. Also, modern common-rail diesel injectors can fire two or three times per engine cycle, doubling the wear on the injector compared to diesels of the past—hence the need for more. A 1000cc will net you plenty of flow for the power goals. But throwing bigger injectors in the truck without changing the computer's tuning is going to create more problems than it will solve. Just think with the M45 2. 3L Hydra Package - Stock Injectors This package includes 6 custom tunes by JeliBuilt Performance pre-loaded on a brand new Power Hungry Performance Hydra Chip. The stock injectors are plenty capable of delivering sufficient fuel for low speed and the fact that it was running rough at low speeds is tune related. 5 lbs / 8 cylinders / duty cycle (in this case, 80%). -Stock engine, larger turbo, header, professionally ported head and intake flowing 225+cfm, cone filter, 3" exhaust, FMIC, 255 lph fuel pump, large aftermarket cam like a Stage 2 or Stage 3 from Boport at ~25-30 psi will produce roughly 350-450rwhp (stock rods won't last long at over 400rwhp unless the tune is perfect so plan accordingly). Show Full Signature 2014 BMW X1Msport - single turbo - inline6 - stock. The nozzle on this injector starts out as a brand new, 7 hole Power Stroke nozzle, which has been modified to deliver more fuel (per unit of time) over a stock nozzle. Temp after intercooler varied from 33 to 55 F. 5 Larger intercooler and a bypass valve. You can see that at approx 4500 rpm the injector duty cycle is pretty much 100% and at approx 4700 rpm the air fuel ratio starts to go lean. look at ur title. The pcm cannot recognize that you have installed larger injectors, and can only remove so much fuel. The Hilux D-4D 3. This is a NA 01' Cobra so the fuel compensation is just for the bigger cams. As for the fuel system, you are now finding it isn't uncommon for a 600-rwhp car to be running 100-220 lb/hr injectors. One of the main issues that's cropping up now is tired fuel pumps and this needs to be rectified before getting injectors. eg the secondary injectors may use E85 or race gas. These injectors flow 1,000 ccs at 40 psi, slightly bigger than our 750cc injectors. Air Fuel Tuning (A/F Tuning) Programming ECU settings for a optimul A/F Ratio * Your target AFR should be around 14. I am 100% sure that a stock Hemis with no internal changes or power adders will not benefit from larger injectors. However, on certain models the Shark Injector is offered in a higher octane setting of 93. P for percentage change and enter -56. My goal is 260bhp and 275lbs. injectors for GTO/3000GT number on injector BDL360 L= Low impendance 360=cc Galent EC5A MDL390 L=Low impendance 390=cc. MNNTHBX pipe, Bazzaz, cam, and Mtake took the bike from 8 to 12hp. To be safe and do things the right way a tune would be needed with larger injectors though. 1 injectors are about 34 lbs. bore kit form FST the other day for my 09. Fuel Injectors - posted in R35 GT-R: So I have looked around and I could not find any kind of information I needed. These high performance fuel injectors also have a 1 year warranty. Duty Cycle is the KEY factor in the equation!. One of the things I need to do is up the fuel injectors from the stock 24# ones to what they recommended which was the 39# ones used in a stock Terminator (i. , exhaust and intake improvements. in terms of bumping up fuel delivery you could accomplish the very same thing by installing larger injectors instead. About Injectors on Ford ECMs. Available only in the most popular spray pattern. 5psi on the LT1), and you have not accommodated for that in the PCM tune (by adjusting the fuel injector constant), then your car will run rich. 75 pulley on pump fuel. I would recommend starting with a 25/75% mix and then going from there. The stoichiometric point is the AFR where all of the oxygen in the air burns with all of the fuel. With the introduction of direct injection fuel systems, changing fuel injectors has become more complex. Running Bigger Injector's. NB: We got 90% BHP Increase on the Perodua Viva! Warranty is 6 months. STS Turbo Rear Mounted Twin Turbo System without tuner & fuel injectors for 1997-2000 Corvette with LS1 (Standard Kit) 1997-2000 Corvette with LS1 engine STS Turbo systems overcome challenges of traditional installations by mounting the turbos in the rear. Just think with the M45 2. The ECUs fuel model will account for the effect of fuel pressure on the injector flow so this shouldn't require any work from you. 8 gallon urea tank are updating the fuel and emissions systems. 0 Aftermarket. BRZ: Calibrating larger injectors BRZ: Re-scaling the Factory Air Fuel Ratio Sensor After installing a set of larger port injectors it is very important to ensure that the ECU knows their true size so that it can accurately calculate the correct injector opening time for a given volume of fuel. The stock injectors are plenty capable of delivering sufficient fuel for low speed and the fact that it was running rough at low speeds is tune related. The fuel injector is easy to install, and they are quite simple to replace. We are still accepting orders on the website and will resume shipping on 6/22. The advantages of these are they require no changes to the wiring or fuel rail, and look totally standard from the outside. E85 is becoming more and more the fuel of choice amongst our customers. 4" pulley won't pull that without a bunch of other mods. mods: aem cai, crucial dp, and greddy evo2 catback. You can make lots of power with a safe overall performance tune without sacrificing drivability, reliability or longevity. We are willing to sell any combination of hardware that gets you to your goal. ) will need to be performed for your car to run properly. Larger fuel injectors can deliver more fuel to the engine, but a larger fuel pump is also needed to supply the injectors. BRZ/FRS/GT86: 750cc Injectors Kit Manual The Cranking fuel maps will need reducing when larger injectors are fitted because the port injectors are used in the crank condition, and the EcuTek injectors have more than three times the flow of the original units. 9L 318 360. Ford uses the concept of injector slopes, breakpoints and battery voltage latency adjustment to cover the behavior of injectors. 0L Fueling - Injectors. Fuel Injector Impedance. The 93 and 95 pods are. Your engine is not getting enough fuel at high RPMs and the injectors are at 100% duty cycle. You can't just add bigger injectors and let it go at that, without consequences. The MAF 460 will take quite a few performance mods without needing an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Data loging a run the load hits 76% Is this the actual load or is it actually 92%? Figuring the MAF curve is changed 16% (or there abouts) to comensate for the larger injectors in the ECM pprogramed for 25s. so there for i want a little more fuel. Deatsch recommends data logging the IDC to determine if replacement is required. per hour or cc's per minute. There are two situations where installing larger fuel injectors makes sense. I current have a PowerAxel base tune with air intake and turboback exhaust set up. Back on the subject of larger injectors, there is no advantage to installing larger injectors unless you can't get enough fuel to maintain the proper A/F. The factory injectors found in the Audi S3, Audi TTS, VW Golf ED30, VW Golf ED35, VW Golf Pirelli, VW Golf R & VW Scirocco R, Seat Leon Cupra & Seat Leon Cupra R K04 based vehicle are the largest Bosch HDEV 1 gasoline direct injection injectors currently available for the VAG 2. But thAts in an LLY right because my buddy has fass pump larger turbo and stock injectors studs and efi with 653hp and 12xx tq. To calculate the proper. Armed with that information we can select the correct injector for the application. The ID1050x idle extremely well on mild n/a applications and will have the headroom for nearly any BP engine project. Apparently I will need a tune if I buy new, bigger injectors. 0L upgrade The upgrade package starts with our trained technician fitting a new TorqMax Turbocharger to the engine as one of the limiting factors when upgrading the 3. A simple recalc of req_fuel won't handle your injector re-sizing now, but I suggest you do it and then leave req_fuel at the correct value. Cut my quarter mile time 3/10 sec and gained 3 mph. Bosch 775 injectors from Magna's/HSV's make good upgrades. Well, standard injectors are 19lb, these are 30lb so lots more fuel. So they aren't out of flow, so a larger injector won't do anything but. Choosing an injector for the proper application is relatively easy, however, it's different for a naturally aspirated engine versus a supercharged engine. The simplest way to tune the fuel trims is to add or subtract from the Injector Constant variable, which is a value telling the PCM how big your injectors are. If you throw in bigger injectors it will hold that injector open for the same amount of time as the smaller injectors and it will dump TONS of fuel in. Fuel injectors can be used in any car you like, and they can be swapped with the carburetor at any time. Speed Density. Mass Airflow vs. If this precision is thrown off by restrictions, electrical problems or fuel problems, it can cause driveability issues. Performance fuel injectors are classified according to resistance and flow rate, in lbs. I have owned, worked on, and built performance engines since the 1960's. tunning advice and help for bigger injectors in 5. 85 with intake and demon injectors and make 830rwhp on my M6 on 94 octane fuel with plenty of duty cycle left. Using injectors too big can cause poor running problems at idle and light throttle. If your fuel pressure is set higher than stock (43. It’s measured in grams per second. This isn't as common on newer style injectors. Changing injector size requires tuning. Have you added new fuel injectors, map sensor or MAF sensor to your car? Are you looking to ensure the car is still operating while you wait to complete your mod list? We can help! We know that customers often like to put new parts on their vehicles and have it run properly without doing a full custom tune. The (injector) "dead-time" is in the injector characteristics setting and is usually approximately 1ms, but is unique to each injector design. 0 flex fuel motors have bigger injectors than the non flex fuel ones (24lbs i think), but you'd need to get the computer re-tuned, a larger throttle body and intake, headwork to increase airflow, better headers and exhaust to actually make the work noticeable. The "problem" is that the ECU is looking at the 02's and adjusting short term and long term fuel trims based on how it was programmed aka the "tune". Replace the stock fuel injectors for your modified HEMI engine with High performance injectors designed for 700 HP and up. Is the Shark Injector tuned for any other upgrades?. The Hilux D-4D 3. The very night when my car went home, I developed a sudden brand new random problem. I'm planning on taking the turbocharger and manifold out of an 88 thunderbird turbocoupe. The latency map is in ms, not ms/% like injector scale. The stock injectors are plenty capable of delivering sufficient fuel for low speed and the fact that it was running rough at low speeds is tune related. I like the boost from the turbo but am looking more towards staying off the throttle and getting a mpg boost. eg stock 310cc injectors can be used until boost, at which point both 310cc and 1300cc injectors are used. Q - Do I need to get "tuned" if I install high flow injectors? A - Yes. Clean intake valves and ports allow the proper air-fuel mixture into the combustion chamber so the engine responds quickly and efficiently. The only thing needed is a tune for it, but the tank, lines, pump, and injectors will all support it without modification. The larger the nozzle, the ‘quicker’ the injector can. I was told I should upgrade the stock 14lb/hr injectors to 36 lb/hr and bump up to 190lph fuel pump. Once you reach the 300hp range at the wheels, the stock injectors with the fuel pump upgrade usually reaches 90% injector cycle. Even the best kept fuel injectors can be prone to trouble, though. Injectors can also be classified into two categories based on whether they can inject a single fuel or two types of fuels in a single unit, i. Old School Fuel Injectors. 3L/325 Fuel Injectors and get Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing!. This article is a part of a series of misfire condition troubleshooting articles for your 4.
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